Trusted, high impact counsel, campaigns and crisis management for leaders, from Andy Coulson, Jon Steafel, Susan Adams and team. There was a real kind of internal crisis, funnily enough, at Belmarsh at that moment. [62], Coulson was charged with having committed perjury during the trial in 2010 of Tommy and Gail Sheridan. They used to say about the News of the World, the old marketing slogan for the News of the World was all human life is here and thats true of Dickens. [2], Coulson started work at 18 as a junior reporter on the Basildon Echo in 1986. And Ive got to be honest with you, it was actually really interesting and quite rewarding work. Andy: You have to sit there on your own while the rest of your fellow inmates are with their families. Jane: And I was going to say, in hindsight would you have taken that job? Coulson, who now runs a successful strategy business, talks candidly and honestly about his regrets, resilience and recovery. And Eloise, who is a considerably more evolved human being than I am, knew that long before I did and shes trained me well in that regard. Jane: So, there came a point where you thought, OK, I dont know how long Im going to be here. Its appalling. Jane: Well, talking of which, as a journalist, we also know the picture that everybody wants is of somebody in the prison van being taken away. [19], Coulson was portrayed by Andrew Bone in the 2015 Channel 4 television film Coalition.[63]. Nobody there wanted me to go. Monty was 12? I think on one level the answer was yes, because it was just so long. Andy: I have, yeah, and weve had that discussion. Jane: So, tell me, what was a typical day at Belmarsh? I have apologised during the trial and Ill do it again now, here. Im with a bunch of other people who are in the same situation as me and Ive just got to make the best of it really. And I made mistakes in my personal life as well, and so Ive never at any point felt why me? about it because thats just not how I feel. Diary Londoner's Diary: Truth surfaces about Damien's undersea world. Revelation: Rebekah Brooks and Andy Coulson (left, in September 2004) were having a secret affair for at least six years, the Old Bailey heard. I knew that Eloise would have read it and I knew that my mum would have read it. (listen here). [13] On 17 April 2015, the Crown Prosecution Service announced that Coulson's retrial was to be scrapped, along with that of Goodman and the trials of seven other journalists. Take control of what you actually have control over and, of course, the main thing that you have control over is your own mind-set and your own attitude. Certainly, my upbringing. Find professional Andy Coulson videos and stock footage available for license in film, television, advertising and corporate uses. And the Old Bailey is a court that is straight out of central casting. Ask me if I felt I should have been convicted and the answer is obviously no because I pleaded not guilty. Its actually a relatively modern prison but its got, as anyone whos been there, either inside or visiting, will know, this enormous American-style prison wall around its perimeter, and massive gates. On 21 November 2014, Coulson was released from prison having served less than five months of his 18-month prison sentence. I knew nothing about it, obviously. [19], Coulson grew up in Wickford, Essex. My biggest regret was the decision that I took to have my two oldest sons come and visit me in Belmarsh". I mean, you've probably faced a few challenges in your life but an eight-month trial at the Old Bailey, followed by prison, is obviously another league. It taught me that I consider myself to be a reasonably good friend but I think I could have been better, so I think it taught me to be a better friend. Andy: Well that didnt happen immediately, because theres a period of time between verdict and sentencing. And the other, in the same way as I have just said that I got enormous enjoyment from the political job, there is also a danger that because my newspaper career ended so badly, that you, sort of, chuck out all the good stuff there. I think there are probably people who think that I should still be in prison. Private investigator Glenn Mulcaire, remunerated by the newspaper, was given a custodial sentence of six months. I think that the danger with this conversation, if Im brutally honest with you, as we sit here right at the start of it, is that it somehow comes off as woe is me. That doesnt mean that Im pleased it happened, Im not. Simple as that, and theres a lot of that that goes on. Obviously, I knew nothing about it other than the fact that it was a D-Cat and therefore would be better than where I was. Jane: We now know, obviously, that you came through all of that, you served your time, the Scottish situation went away. Its an unnatural thing to do to relive your life and, by the way, if all you are doing is reliving your life through a negative prism, its a fundamentally unhealthy thing to do. [48], However, the Crown Prosecution Service said in December 2010 that it had determined that there was insufficient evidence to charge Coulson over allegations that he was aware of phone-hacking at the publication. [39], As the Conservative Party's director of communications, Coulson continued to be subjected to allegations that he was aware of the hacking of phones while serving as the editor of News of the World. permanent tsb. I wanted to hear what they were up to and they got on with it, theyve been incredible throughout. Jane: You dont really talk about yourself very much. Thats a memory I didnt want my boys to have and I regret that. Because his family relocated frequently, he had lived in seven cities by the time he was 17. [49], The Guardian reported on 7 July 2011 that Coulson was to be arrested the following day, along with a senior journalist whom the paper refused to name. I was treated perfectly decently and fairly but its just something that you think to yourself, I cant quite believe this is happening to me. So, I spot the signs and I know what to do and I know how to kind of avoid it. [60][61], Coulson was to face a retrial, together with the News of the World's former royal editor Clive Goodman, after the jury failed to agree a verdict on two other charges of conspiring to cause misconduct in public office in relation to the alleged purchase of confidential royal phone directories in 2005 from a palace police officer. Did you ever feel scared? Then before I knew it I was standing on the landing and being put into a holding cell and then they told me Youre going to Suffolk, going to a place called Hollesley Bay.' Im undoubtedly happier. He thankfully survived and is perfectly fit and well now, but it was touch and go for a while and ask me those moments, you know, when your son is going into an operating theatre, compare that moment with the moment of going through the green door that I described; there is no comparison. Eloise and the boys have to take the gold medal, if you like, for getting me through but there are a whole load who get the silver medal and Im very grateful for it. But I never, at any point, felt that I was being treated worse than anyone else. And I totally accept that and I am very sorry for it. Thats basically where you spend yourself emotionally as an editor, in between those two things. Andy: Well I just think for anyone, him or anyone, me included, trying to live life through the rear-view mirror is an utterly pointless exercise, so I dont know. Five years that saw him fall from grace from Number 10 Downing Street to a cell in a high-security prison. Prison is a, very obviously, stark place but it is also packed with emotion. I saw him at the beginning of the year. But Ive never done it in any detail other than, of course, over a very long period in a witness box in the Old Bailey. I think it is partly chemistry and I think its partly experience and I have got a lot of crisis experience from a professional point of view. Dublin. As director of communications for the Conservatives he does an excellent job in a proper, upright way at all times. For me and for Eloise, ask us honestly, was this the worst thing that ever happened to us? Andy: Well sometimes literally all day. In 2005 at the age of 16, Patrick Collison was the recipient of the 41 st Young Scientist of the Year for his work with Lisp. Explaining his ruling, Lord Burns said that for Coulson to be found guilty it was necessary for the Crown to prove that the allegedly untrue evidence he had given at the 2010 Sheridan trial had been relevant to the issues in it. But the bigger point for me is that number of people who ran into the gunfire for me, who owed me nothing and who have become unbelievable friends and support to me and to the family. Andy: Well Belmarsh was going through a pretty dysfunctional phase at that stage. Very hard to get it down to 10 songs, let alone get it down to one, but I think if I had to choose one it would be Keep Your Head Up by Ben Howard, which is a bit of a family anthem. We talk about it and funnily enough they, it would be wrong to say that they laugh about it, but they found some aspects of it quite fascinating. Andy: Yeah, yeah. I saw him in January. The judge himself, I think, said right at the start, British justice is on trial and when you are the person in the dock, I think you know that if this goes wrong its going to go badly wrong. [9][10][11][12], In June 2014 at the Old Bailey, Coulson was found guilty of a charge of conspiracy to intercept voicemails (phone-hacking). Long before, in truth. Youd get out for an hour and then youd be back in again and youd do anther 23 hours and it was boiling. Andy: My sentence, having been found guilty of the crime, was probably about right. There are dogs and there are searches and its another one of those sort of movie scenes. I quite like the one-in-five theory; that out of five people that you meet, three of them will be indifferent, one will think that youre an absolute superstar and the other one will never want to look you in the face again. Andy Coulson, the former Downing Street Communications Director and News of the World editor, has given his first detailed interview about the scandal that ended, in 2014, with a spell in HMP. Andy: Better than the alternative. That moment when I spoke to my lawyers from prison. And then before you know it youre back in court with a suitcase, waiting to find out how long youre going to go to prison for. And in prison, as I mentioned, there was that book ban and I could not have been more delighted on the day that I finally got into the library at Belmarsh. No one wants to spend two months of their life in a high-security prison, certainly, but I was mainly concerned about my boys because I wanted to see them and I didnt want them to visit me in a high-security prison. No one knew that at that stage. Andy: Well, I think because of the podcast series. [40] Cameron, though, defended Coulson on the morning of 9 July: "I believe in giving people a second chance. Jane: And they take all of your clothes away, I assume? Youve got to be either kind of 200% enthusiastic about something or youve got to be outraged. Those were my choices and when you take jobs like that, people are going to form a view. [23], In 2008 an employment tribunal upheld a claim of bullying by Coulson whilst he was at the News of The World. Andy: And then you go onto a tag and then, by the way, you are on licence for another lump of time and you are very restricted. And I managed to get down just in time and before you know it youre off driving through the city and I just remember looking at the bright blue sky really. Coulson Partners offer strategic advice that moves the dial. Jane: You were acquitted. And that visiting thing, the rule is if you kind of cross the line into the visit and your visitor doesnt turn up youre not allowed to leave and that can be brutal. Because I read at one point that youd been pushed down the stairs. I left and David didnt want me to go. Andy Coulson is Former Editor of News of the World, Former Director of Communications, Downing Street, and an expert speaker on communications, crisis management and reputation. His predecessors had had the highest level of vetting, as did his successor and (after his departure) his deputy. He commented about the News of the World allegations "I stand by what I've said about those events but when the spokesman needs a spokesman it's time to move on. And even more delighted that there was a whole shelf of Dickens because I love a bit of Dickens. So, although they were still pretty young, theyd had a crash course in the law and in the legal process, if you like, already. I got my head around it pretty quickly and what I kind of understood fairly swiftly is that the thing that should make you nervous about being in prison is violence, obviously. There are 100+ professionals named "Andy Coulson", who use LinkedIn to exchange information, ideas, and opportunities. And that is, I have to say, largely thanks to Eloise because shes, maybe well get on to it, the reason I got through is her. Without any shadow of a doubt, as a couple and as a family. But this kind of disconnection from family, whatever the circumstances, is just a fundamental negative. And I was able, very quickly totally different approach, totally different kind of attitude, the governor there, his view was, weve got you for a while and were going to make the most of it. Theres a lot of kind of, Ill help you out here and you help me, and I knew I wasnt going to engage in any of that. I do believe its a muscle and my muscle was very well exercised by the time I found myself dealing with my own. I dont think its something that you sort of say right, great, Ive done that, thats finished. What was the apex of your crisis, do you think? [52], On 24 July 2012, Coulson was charged along with seven others for "conspiring to intercept communications without lawful authority from 3 October 2000 to 9 August 2006. I didnt know what was going to happen and I didnt know what I was going to find. "Due to the unique nature of our shoreline, we have designed and constructed our own barges and tugs to accommodate services in landscaping, septic systems, demolition, and excavation,"says Arnie. In the second extract from his new book Hack Attack, Nick Davies. Funnily enough I am a bit of a blubberer, but its normally at something really sort of soft. I found myself, very quickly, saying things in my own head that I had been saying to members of the cabinet not that long before, albeit them facing different crises, the principles were the same. I was encouraged to stay but I just felt from a practical point of view, because I am of course a resigning recidivist, much in the same way as I felt when I was at the News of the World, how on Earth am I able to sit here and write a leader, criticising that outrage thing again, criticising a politician when Ive got a reporter sat in jail? Andy: No, no, I had a bit of sarcasm, quite understandably really, a bit of joshing. Rebekah Brooks, No 10'S former spin doctor Andy Coulson and three others appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court today. Search instead in Creative? The main thing for me is that bitterness bullet, youve just got to keep dodging it, because bitterness really does send you only one way, it will only ever send you backwards. Jane: And when they came to visit Belmarsh, because a lot of people listening to this will never have been to a Category A prison, even to visit, why is that your regret? Andy: Well Belmarsh is also a building thats out of central casting, if I can put it that way. [16][17] This trial started on 11 May 2015 because of the general election. Andy: Well its a mixture of things, I think, as it is for most people. Jane: In his memoir, David Cameron wrote that he was wrong to insist that you were innocent until proven guilty and that he should have removed you in 2010 until the scandal snowballed. In 2005, Andy Coulson was the award-winning editor of the News of the World, presiding over a culture of ruthless exploitation. At that stage there was a book ban in prisons, so no chance of getting any books at all. So I rang him and we had a conversation and that led me to say: Look, youve got plenty of friends in your life, you dont need any more friends, thats not what this is about, but if this is going to work we do need to be straight with each other with what you are trying to do here. I dont know how long you can give it but I want you to stay and be in Downing Street with me, which was, I have to say, enormously flattering. [14] On 30 June 2014, it was announced that he would face a retrial over two counts of conspiring to cause misconduct in public office in relation to the alleged purchase of confidential royal phone directories in 2005 from a palace police officer after the jury in the original trial was unable to reach a verdict on them. A bemused local cabbie found himself sitting in the middle of a cornfield and off we went to the station. Jane: Because it had been quite a high-profile trial. It was the wrong decision and I am very clear about that." Jane: So, youve known the power and privilege of being a newspaper editor and advisor to David Cameron. And that brings with it a whole bunch of other issues as well. I am very sorry for the mistakes that I made at the News of the World. And then youre off and youre into the admission process which, again, is not especially pleasant, I have to say. I never asked for any favours at all from anyone, but what I didnt think was fair was for me to be treated differently. The key to it, I think, with therapy is you have got to find the right person. Coulson had served as the editor of News of the World from 2003 to 2007, when he Read More And it was, it was a much better regime. Jane: As you say, its high security for a reason, because there are some pretty serious criminals in there. "[31] According to Chris Bryant MP, senior officials working with Coulson believed that he had the same clearance level as his predecessor. The most common refrain was Its not like the House of Commons, is it Andy?. Not given a reason why and that you should prepare yourself for spending your sentence here entirely. [21], Coulson resigned on 26 January 2007 over the News of the World phone hacking affair which would several weeks later see the jailing for four months of the paper's Royal correspondent Clive Goodman. I just wanted to see them. And why? And I managed to get there. Andy Coulson arrives at the Old Bailey on July 4, 2014 in London, England. He attended Beauchamps High School, a secondary school and sixth form college, from 1979 to 1986. You pull up and the gates open and you know youre going to prison, youre in no doubt that youre going to prison. And, of course, we became friends because we worked together a long time and David and his family went through, as everyone remembers, some truly appalling times during the period. There were so many different things that were unravelling in my life that I realised that if I tried to deal with them all, I would probably go mad. That never happened to me. When you saw very young men like that in prison, now that your own boys are reaching past adulthood, did you, sort of, connect with them? Ive never been through what youve been through, but a lot of people when they have a day or whatever, you think about other people who are worse off than you. The judge actually criticised the timing of the statement and said he was unsure whether it was out of ignorance or deliberate. Youve got to find your match and Ive definitely done that. And I had so much incoming. Big Brother 15 winner Andy Herren has never been shy about sharing his opinion on social media. And then we were brought in to see you. But more that, my conviction is spent now, its gone. Is that why you resigned? But we had a two-week crisis in our life, after Monty was born, in terms of the emotional impact of it, it was far greater because we felt we were going to lose him not long after he was born. Former spin doctor Andy Coulson appears in court alongside Rebekah Brooks and three others charged over corrupt payments to officials. Ive really enjoyed it, but the process is that Im asking a whole bunch of really interesting people to share their stories and I just got to the end of the first series and it didnt seem very fair, frankly, that I hadnt put myself through the same process. And so invariably youre stood behind another prisoner as he makes his call and the amount of times that that prisoner would then turn away from the phone with tears streaming down his face was frequent. Andy: Yeah, well Id had that for years by that stage and I think itd be grossly hypocritical for me to even begin to whinge about that, so I never had any issue with that at all. And a whole lot of stuff happened at the News of the World which should not have happened during my time, and Im sorry about that because the impact of it on an awful lot of people was, the result of it was a lot of pain and a lot of hurt for people. That was something I would do often, and like anyone else there have been other things in my life that have given that perspective. Jane: You are just talking there about your absolute love of that job at Downing Street. Andy: Well it came very suddenly. You can be walking along the landing and someone walking the other way, for whatever reason, decides that the answer to their problem that day is to attack you. Because youve not really spoken about that, have you? Jane: Did you worry that it would come across as self-serving? The Coulson Brothers - Mills Brothers Medley -Bass Guitar & Vocals - Curt CoulsonLead Guitar & Vocals - Jack CoulsonKeyboards & Vocals - Otis CliftonDrums & . Andy: Dangers of drug smuggling and all manner of other suggested uses for books. I had plenty of offers and I just didnt. Andy: Yeah, always. But no, certainly not in this kind of context. Andy: Yeah, it is, it is hard. I guess well talk about that in a bit more detail. Speaking outside the court, Coulson said: "I'm just delighted that after four pretty testing years my family and myself have finally had a good day". But that didnt happen and we stayed together and yes, the simple answer to that question, are we stronger as a result? I was a pretty low profile, it didnt turn out that way, of course, but I was a pretty low-profile editor, at least I tried to be and thats absolutely how I saw the job as well when I went into Number 10. But I cant lie about it, I also found it, I think because Im a journalist by trade, I found some elements of it fascinating. Id start with that, I think. Andy: I do, yeah. Jane: Lets just backtrack a bit there. The CPS said that witnesses interviewed by Metropolitan Police including those who had previously made allegations through media outlets had not been willing to provide admissible evidence. Funny, at least for the first 10 times. So part of the evidence presented at the trial revealed that you had had an affair. [38] In March 2017, Coulson Chappell was awarded a contract by the Telegraph Media Group (TMG) to improve the standing of the company's publications, The Daily Telegraph and The Sunday Telegraph. And my parents are grafters, that was always very clear. Jane: So how did you find out, or when did you find out that you were being moved? I want to focus on what we dont know, which is obviously the theme of this podcast, and how you handled that crisis point of your life and, of course, the effect that it had on your family. I think it is something that you need to continually look at and work on and assess and I certainly do that. Entirely self-inflicted, entirely my fault. It was between governors and there was a proper shortage of staff. A thoroughly depressing experience, with barbed wire around you and over you, actually, to stop helicopters coming in. And I thought, this is just hopeless, Im his Director of Communications and Im learning things in the paper. [1][65], English journalist and political strategist, Conservative Party communications director, Downing Street Director of Communications. I was an ex-Murdoch employee in government and a lot of people really didnt like that and saw a lot of conspiracies within that, that I was some kind of stooge, which I absolutely was not. [33], Prior to the jury handing down their verdict after Coulson's trial, Cameron issued a "full and frank" apology for hiring Coulson, saying "I am extremely sorry that I employed him. Which it was. Various media stories estimated his salary at between 275,000[26] and 475,000; the party indicated the latter figure was "inaccurate" and that his salary was "substantially less" but refused to provide an exact figure. Again, that is what this podcast is mainly about. There were a lot of agendas being played. Andy: Youve got a window next to you and I just sort of turned my back. And before I knew it, because its down underneath the Old Bailey where you get on the bus, you then go up a ramp and it was a gloriously sunny day, July the fourth, ironically enough, Independence Day 2014. He was scheduled to stand trial in April 2015 but the trial was postponed to 11 May 2015 because of the general election. Colton came . Andy: Oh, quite a lot. I can tell you that Belmarsh is not a holiday camp by any measure. Why are you doing it now? I mean thats why I think I have instinctively never really taken that sort of approach because I dont much like that. How do you view it? And Ive got to be honest with you, I think that is a change in me because as a newspaper editor, particularly, you are very judgemental. The court felt that they could deal with it so thats where that ended. [43] Sean Hoare, showbusiness reporter at News of the World during Coulson's reign speaking on Five Live, who accused Coulson of lying, has said that indeed Coulson did not ask him to phone hack but veiled his request in "metaphorical language" and asked him to practise his "dark arts". Andy: We had lunch and we talked about politics, as you might expect, and life after politics which is, of course, where he is now. It is an audit on your life and your relationships and there were some people, I think, I expected more of them, if I can put it that way. But first and foremost it was a professional relationship and thats exactly what I wanted it to be and he wanted it to be. Dead reporter's brother at inquiry. Jane: OK, and finally you asked this of all your guests, the three crisis cures, if you like, and you know the rules; it cant be a person. Andy Coulson is the former spokesman for No 10 who reached the highest levels of his profession - before coming crashing down as a result of the phone-hacking scandal. Did you do a lot of that? And I thought to myself, Serco are rubbish at security but absolute bloody masters of irony. "[45], A report aired on Channel 4's Dispatches in October included remarks made by an unnamed source, said to have been a former senior journalist at the News of the World who worked alongside Coulson. And he wanted it to be here always very clear about that. crime, given. Done that. camp by any measure on your own while the rest of your crisis andy coulson brother enough! Say, its gone put it that way the court felt that they could deal with,... 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